BBQ's personal Changemonth request. (in General)

I'm not asking for anything HUGE, but at least a small physical damage boost for UC would be nice.

Race Bannon crushed Akasagi's familiar [155456]
Akasagi's familiar's Guardian Angel smote Race Bannon (5313)
Race Bannon crushed Akasagi's familiar [134346]
Race Bannon crushed Akasagi's familiar [151206]

That's with 226k STR, and those are my higher-end blows.

It'd just be nice, seeing as how I can absolutely NOT hit through a wall of greater than 260 AC. That's my limit. (giving away my biggest weakness in forums...smart, right?)

So, Jonathan...please? *puppy dog eyes*

not to drench your parade or anything...

Race Bannon crunched The Paladin [49704] (283 AC)

Your damage is fine, not bad actually considering

So basically you want all the nice evasion and dodging UC gives AND massive damage as well?

I've just dropped my st down on my tank and moved the xp into dex. But before I did I had 335k ST and with a Morg I was doing between 110k and 200k per strike. My average melee damage was the same as you're showing here.


Unless the Morg is broken...? Lol...

Washington crushed Ringo with Demon Blade [248772]
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Washington crushed Ringo with Demon Blade [200133]
Washington crushed Ringo with Demon Blade [253174]

Thats with 440k str on a 10 AC minion with a named x1250 BoTH.

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Big Hallmark Card's Guardian Angel smote Diabolik (28972)
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That's with 223k ST and a x1700 Morg....

This makes me want to switch my tank to UC...

But then again I always thought the UC weapon damage was underrated. My previous UC guys were doing enough damage to go up to the higher ranks and beat a wide variety of opponents.

Sorry for multiple posts. My x1700 Morg is named. And there is 140 AC on the opponent. Still the damage is very comparable to yours no?

So basically you want all the nice evasion and dodging UC gives AND massive damage as well?




--QBRanger, 3:29 PM EST

Yes.

Honesty is so rare now a days.

I hope then Jon does boost UC's damage.

What's is you current UC level OB?
We could actually compare the damage done and see if you're indeed getting shorted somehow...if we could figure out the x system for UC...

Race Bannon tapped Tsunade [24243]
Race Bannon crunched Tsunade [26501]
Kano-san bruised Tsunade [2744]
Kano-san bruised Tsunade [3395]

198 AC and a ToE does this to me. Takes me 17 rounds to beat up a single Wall.

And novice: Unarmed Combat: 2,073,056/1,200,000 (134)

On a side note: Shouldn't Kano-san be in the spellchecker?

For you, novice:

Against opponents with no defenses (0 AC, no Prot, no ToE, etc)

Race Bannon pulverized Estuans Interius [154271]
Race Bannon crushed Estuans Interius [108488]
Race Bannon pulverized Estuans Interius [159733]
Race Bannon crunched Vehementi's familiar [115422]
Race Bannon crushed Vehementi's familiar [140891]
Race Bannon crushed Vehementi's familiar [129934]
Race Bannon fractured Vehementi [113270]
Race Bannon beat Vehementi [162041]
Race Bannon pulverized Vehementi [155166]

For comparison. No AC, no prot, no ToE:
Washington eviscerated The Petal's Poison with Demon Blade [245624]
Washington draws strength from his weapon! [10800]
Washington decapitated The Petal's Poison with Demon Blade [213804]
Washington decapitated The Petal's Poison with Demon Blade [250280]

named 1250x BoTH with 450k STR

You sure there's no protection? 'cuz I see one trained on that character.

hah, just give UC a vorpal ability...make walls completely useless

Ok, against The True Italian - single FB mage, no damage reduction whatsoever.

My 222k strength and named X1700 Morg:


Diabolik fractured Toni Vorelli with London Calling [103994]
Diabolik draws strength from his weapon! [20798]
Diabolik beat Toni Vorelli with London Calling [163708]
Diabolik draws strength from his weapon! [32741]
Diabolik pulverized Toni Vorelli with London Calling [125106]
Diabolik draws strength from his weapon! [20367]

"hah, just give UC a vorpal ability...make walls completely useless"

what about giving a vorpal ability to an item that benefits UC chars?

"It'd just be nice, seeing as how I can absolutely NOT hit through a wall of greater than 260 AC."

Wait, mine's 265... and you plow through me like a knife through butter. And by plow, I mean after 23 rounds.....

"hah, just give UC a vorpal ability...make walls completely useless"

what about giving a vorpal ability to an item that benefits UC chars?

--Hyrule Castle, 4:45 PM EST

Well, there's now 411 AC out there...I wouldn't say Walls would still be completely useless, considering how big some of them are getting. Shouldn't there be a limit on how much physical damage can be blocked?

NO, should there be a cap on how much damage you can do?

that 411 AC cost nearly 200 mil, I don't want anyone short of DAWG himself getting through it...The VB is cheap enough ya sissy.

True, but that's 69 AC away from being entirely untouchable by physical damage, aside from the VB (and still being quite difficult to beat through, even with it). For those of us who LIKE being able to choose our weapons, or use UC, that's bad news.

I know it is a lot of money. But my point isn't about the cash, it is about the amount of damage reduction.

You spend 200mil on AC, take some of the nastiest penalties in game to trained stats
and you get whooped by anyone with a can opener...

So now everyone else holding weapons (or not!) wants to add a can opener option...good grief make this stupidity stop. Sure you can have a huge damage boost, but you should take damage with every blow, and they should lessen as your fists turn to pulp against my AC...Ranger is starting to rub off on you OB.

I agree i think damage is low for the UC side of things. But I guess the trade off is the dodging....except for DD....thats another topic.

Given the parallel between UC and the Monk class form D&D, I can see it reasonable to give a % Vorpalness based on UC level. It'll cap out at some point.

You spend 200mil on AC, take some of the nastiest penalties in game to trained stats
and you get whooped by anyone with a can opener...

So now everyone else holding weapons (or not!) wants to add a can opener option...good grief make this stupidity stop. Sure you can have a huge damage boost, but you should take damage with every blow, and they should lessen as your fists turn to pulp against my AC...Ranger is starting to rub off on you OB.

--{cb1}novice, 5:12 PM EST


Is it safe to say you missed my whole point?

The frothing might have caused that yeah...but you did just request to be able to take out walls with UC and less than a mil STR, possibly the most silly request made since Ranger spent days on seekers.

Yeah, definitely safe to say you missed the point.

The frothing might have caused that yeah...but you did just request to be able to take out walls with UC and less than a mil STR, possibly the most silly request made since Ranger spent days on seekers.

--{cb1}novice, 5:23 PM EST

I requested NO such thing. 200 AC walls like what I am facing are stopping me dead in my tracks, and I simply stated that I thought UC should have a small damage boost.

As far as the physical damage reduction limit, I was simply looking at it this way: they are 69 AC from total physical damage elimination. That 69 AC gap represents how much physical damage can get through a wall like that.

My point is that it shouldn't ever be possible to ENTIRELY block physical damage.


Definitely, DEFINITELY read more carefully what you think I am saying, the froth was getting in your eyes.

477 isn't the end of physical damage ob, it's the point where you are less likely to take damage than to take it. The tanks (oh those tanks) back on CB1 would still hurt each other, 10k here, 20k there it's random like everything else here. The point was that at some point you have to have something other than physical damage to beat them. If any part of what you proposed was enacted, we might as well toss out large portions of what's left of that part of the game.

forgive me OB, but you've got a 1.2 mil mpr char with less STR than most tanks at half your size, your damage boost is just a few points of strength away...

Yes, but with 16,100,000 experience invested, how powerful do YOU think that UC weapon should be? =) I just would like to see a little more.

You may feel that I simply need more STR - and I have been investing entirely into STR lately - but my PERSONAL hope is to get more damage out of that large an MPR investment. ^_^

from what people showed you in this thread, your damage isn't really all that low for your STR...what X are you assuming you're at?

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Black Knight beat Cause [13537]
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Cause's Guardian Angel smote Black Knight (1195)
Black Knight pulverized Cause [11812]
Cause's Guardian Angel smote Black Knight (1163)

Black Knight crushed Without [76205]
Without's Guardian Angel smote Black Knight (1392)

Thats against Solace 411 AC on cause, I am 120k MPR higher than him and my UC is Unarmed Combat: 586,909/303,377 (67), thats barely any damage if you ask me. I have 194k str. Battle took 5 rounds, Ranged rounds killed his other 3 minions first strike on Cause was melee.

Depends, what networth would you assign to 16 million experience?

How much damage would 16M xp put into MM do?
Remember that would hit but only 1 time per round.

Same cost as your 16M xp into UC.

And... The MM gets nerfed by MgS, TSA, seekers, and AMF.

OB: leave the soapbox alone for a second...I'm happy you've got some xp focus, but it doesn't grant you a magical right to float through the game without trying...

Even if it's a x2000 weapon (which it might be) your damage is lacking because you've got sub par strength, If you'd put another 300k into STR instead of UC you'd likely be doing much better damage. There is no way currently to reduce skills, I don't see it being likely that the kind of power you're looking for is going to be had as cheaply as you want it.

Nov is right, if you can hit that high with only 200k ST, you should train way more ST instead.

I have 400k ST and a named VB [75x200] (+50). My Average hit is under 100k damage, Yes on some occasions i can hit well over 100k, but mainly its under 100k, something like 70k each hit.


You'd probably kick butt with a ToA.

Yes, I know very well that it gives me no such right, but I want to anyways ;) but seriously, the point was more that all that exp. has been devoted away from the STR and DX.

*shrugs* Guys, I was just saying it'd be nice for more damage. Jeez. Calm down the 'WARNING: SUGGESTION MAY NOT BE LOGICAL' alarm - it's simply because I can't pour NW into my weapon like everyone else, which is frustrating when you really need more damage. (in that respect, I'm just like a mage, Ranger ~_^ )

So, I'll re-iterate.

I'm not asking for anything HUGE, but at least a small physical damage boost for UC would be nice.

Note: not necessary, nice. I'm just having a problem hitting through walls, which are pretty commonplace amongst the opponents I'm trying to fight.

You want to cut through those walls, get a bigger ranged attack. My little x184 Elb hits for the same amounts of damage as my x1700 Morg. So for about 2-3 mill (buying and boosting) you've a really good ranged attack. Most people using walls have their team set up so it's the first thing you hit, apart from maybe enchanters.

And as for the ranged penalties that apparently require archery to have more than a 20% chance to hit.....I'm not sure if they're working or not, because I've a +11 on this bow, and I'm probably only getting about +30 or so from the ToA bonus. And unless evasion is in the mix I don't miss, and against some people thanks to the dex gap I'm hitting doubles.


You've got a huge weapon allowance to play with when you're using UC, it's a shame not to use it properly.

Good point - I *had* been thinking about investing into an ELBow. But I love my SoD. =( So difficult to decide! My love or efficiency?

I've been using both on this char, and even with ex shot, the Elb is much, much, much, much better. Seriously, I don't know why I hadn't invested in one before. So much more damage for your money, so even though you have to spend out initially (not that much though - for me anyway at present about a weeks money) your money is actually going further in the long run.

I agree with a litte in this thread. ;)

411 AC is obscenely good. On average 86.31% Physical damage reduction.

Then there is a ToE Aura and Protection to take into account.

The cost is over 200 Million. But do we want someone, anyone, becoming immune to one type of damage?

Next point though.

A high enough Evasion out does 477 AC. You can't get hit, you take zero damage 100% mitigation.

If 477 AC is bad, then we'd have to stop anyone having a Higher Evasion than the highest Dex + PTH.

But, for Evasion, at least it's a constant comparison. AC is static when you get enough. It does what it says on the tin.

"And as for the ranged penalties that apparently require archery to have more than a 20% chance to hit.....I'm not sure if they're working or not, because I've a +11 on this bow, and I'm probably only getting about +30 or so from the ToA bonus. And unless evasion is in the mix I don't miss, and against some people thanks to the dex gap I'm hitting doubles."

I believe the 20% chance to hit without archery is only the base chance to hit. Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought I read it somewhere.

yeah, I think you're right there.

Yep, he's right, base CTH.

GL - why would we have to do that? You can buff your DX/PTH to get by the biggest Evasion, by both MPR and $$, but what can you do against a physically invulnerable (and EXTREMELY magic resistant) opponent?

Buff your VB damage with XP or $$.

Use Decay.

Hm. Both true, but I don't like them for the reasons:

a) Forces all physical attackers to switch to VB

b) Decay doesn't kill, and AMF vulnerable

with 180k ST against Solace's Cause




assassin fractured Cause [10073]
assassin draws strength from his weapon! [5396]
Cause's Guardian Angel smote assassin (1408)
assassin bruised Cause [4670]
assassin draws strength from his weapon! [2580]
Cause's Guardian Angel smote assassin (1194)


assassin bruised Cause [5172]
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assassin crunched Cause [9037]
assassin draws strength from his weapon! [4972]
Cause's Guardian Angel smote assassin (1377)


assassin fractured Cause [6046]
assassin draws strength from his weapon! [3375]
Cause's Guardian Angel smote assassin (1259)
assassin pounded Cause [8643]
assassin draws strength from his weapon! [4876]
Cause's Guardian Angel smote assassin (1355)


assassin fractured Cause [6507]
assassin draws strength from his weapon! [3382]
Cause's Guardian Angel smote assassin (1290)
assassin pulverized Cause [8502]
assassin draws strength from his weapon! [3130]
Cause's Guardian Angel smote assassin (1268)
assassin cries "charge!!!!!!!!!!"

:D

"Hm. Both true, but I don't like them for the reasons:

a) Forces all physical attackers to switch to VB"

A few people have been saying that for a while... ;)

"b) Decay doesn't kill, and AMF vulnerable"

Decay could do with a tweak, but we don't want it becomign the DD VB. ;)

Agreed. You let it kill and all of a sudden AMF will be LITERALLY required for every team....but if it can't kill, then it isn't really all so powerful against the walls....where is the happy median??

If you boys want to start tinkering around with AC now, I'll let you know you'll be in for a bumpy ride with me. Mr. Sackcloth and Ashes, and Dr. Tin Foil Ballerina, I will make sure that whatever happens it ends up being worse for you than it is now. Linear damage reduction is not what you want to see happen...

"How much damage would 16M xp put into MM do?"

Level 1,192,868 -- XP 15,999,992
Effect: 572577
Damage range: 286289 - 572577 per hit.

My tools are useful!!

Come on... *someone* must think that's useful...

yes, it's spiffy even, we're all just too stunned to say a thing

NS:

Very helpful.

So BBQ did about 450k with his UC and low str vs the same amount 1 MM would do.

Not counting any AMF, MgS, TSA the defender might have, it is about the same.

AC will count vs both and UC will have a chance not to hit vs people with DB's and high dex.

Except MM hits in Ranged rounds as well.

Thank you. That makes me happy :)

"Except MM hits in Ranged rounds as well. "

You get evasion and UC, so what's your point?

My point is that I don't hit in ranged rounds. Pretty clear, no?

You also don't get hit in ranged by tanks.

You also have all that WA to throw at either an ELB or an EXbow

Not counting any AMF, MgS, TSA the defender might have, it is about the same.

AC will count vs both and UC will have a chance not to hit vs people with DB's and high dex.


That chance not to hit is pretty high if I don't pump UC's effect up pretty high, as it steals from my DX quite a bit. I'm also very weak to EC because of this.

Additionally, I am hitting multiple times to get my damage equivalence, so I'm more vulnerable to GA.

And last but not least, an ELBow hits alright for me during ranged if I pump it pretty hard on the +. That 20% base CTH is pretty wicked on the poor non-Archer folk against anyone with DB/Evasion. ^_^

that si why I also suggested the exbow, the chance to bring down their STR to a reasonable level so that you aren't also fighting against the smallish defence that STR gives on top of the AC.

I don't think that defense even makes a difference. Maybe I'm hitting 4 points lower than I should. But I really don't think STR-defense has much effect at ALL.